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Old 23 September 2009, 00:40
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Phoney Force Recon - Marine Sniper - SEAL

I am going to make this as short as possible.. Anyone wanting further details, or have questions, just PM me..


There was an “incident” in Sturgis SD last month involving my best friend, and a self proclaimed Force Recon, Marine Sniper, and Navy SEAL whose name is James Richard Lyons, but goes by Richard.. Lyons is the truck driver that hauls “The Wall That Heals” around the country..


My friend, John Devitt, built “The Moving Wall” in 1984 and has literally carried it all over the world.. I believe that “The Wall That Heals” wasn't built until some time in the late 1990's.. John had been on the road for many years prior to TWTH even getting started.. I am honored that I was the very first person to have the inaugural set up in my hometown back in October of 1984..


Lyons pulled his rig in front of The Moving Wall which had already been set up for viewing.. That alone is a no-no.. John asked Lyons what the hell was he doing parking his rig in front of The Wall.. Lyons pushed John off of the running board of his truck and came out swinging a Ka Bar.. My thought was why would a Force Recon – SEAL pull a Ka Bar on an Army dude..? Me and John were both in the Cav.


John knew he had to end this quickly before he was hurt or killed, so John just poked him in the eyes.. End of fight..


Now, to the subject of Lyons military.. Myself and a few others decided to find out just who this guy really was.. These are his word and I can document everything he says.. He has repeatedly told TV and Newspaper reporters that he was Force Recon and Navy SEAL..


First he says:


“As a young man, Richard left his home in Miami, Florida to follow in his father’s footsteps by joining the military. At the age of 17, he enlisted in the Navy where he received extensive training. He attended jungle training in Panama, dive school in Key West, weapons training at Base Quantico and jump school at Fort Benning. After training, Richard volunteered for Vietnam, where he served four tours with the U.S. Marine Corps 1st Reconnaissance Battalion and with the Navy Seals.”


This was said about him:


He's been telling the press and anybody else that will listen that he lost "Half a foot and half a shoulder" in Vietnam. He told a lot of the folks at the Legion Post that he'd been a SEAL and also Force Recon.


He also says:


Lyons served four tours in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, 1964-1968. After serving in the war as a sniper, Lyons returned to the United States and after taking a little time to settle down and get his head on straight, became a trucker where he says he found freedom on the road.


He also says:


“Lyons served four tours in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, 1964-1968. Lyons lost half of one foot and half of one shoulder while fighting in Vietnam and recently was diagnosed with “Agent Orange” which causes him breathing problems and makes his eyes water. “I stepped on a booby trap and lost half my foot while down injured,” Lyon said. “While down I took another shot from a shooter with a gun” into my shoulder.”


He says this at Classmates .com:


CLASSMATES .Com

Richard Lyons

Southwest Miami High School

Miami, FL

Class of 1966


Biography: i drive the 1/2 scale of the vietnam veterans memorial across this nation. i wrk for...


Here it is—Richard's authorized biography. Check out Richard's Q&A for some personal factoids.


i drive the 1/2 scale of the vietnam veterans memorial across this nation. i wrk for the vietnam veterans memorial fund in wash d.c. i live on the road after selling house putting personals in storage. this is such an honor to do and soooo emotional. i might have been a bad boy then but now i serve those who never came home. i get to repay those we lost in nam. remember ronnie luke jimmy tucker? i do, and i miss them. god honor country.... rick lyons now a better man. thanx for sharing this time with me. god bless and keep ya safe. happy trails, yeeee hah!!!!!!


Then he says this at Classmates .com:


Richard Lyons Jul 01 2009


Note from Richard


been awhile. diane devorced in 68. remarried x3. jail or nam so i went usmc. lost 1/2 left foot 1/4 left shldr. i now wrk for the vietnam vet mem frm wash dc i drive the 1/2 scale of the wall arond the u.s. no base home i live where where the wall goes to. i bring the names of thse killed to thier home its awsom stay in touch.


Lyons is one walking, talking, lying contradiction..


Reported claims:


Navy Enlistment thru SEAL Training.
Marine Enlistment thru Force Recon.
Jungle Warfare Training in Panama.
Special weapons in Quantico.
Rank of Gunnery Sgt.
Four (04) Tours in the Nam.
Seven (07) months in Naval Hospital.


AND, he did it all in four (04) years.


Lyons says he is 62 years old.. He has repeatedly said: “At the age of 17, he enlisted in the Navy” The math says he joined the Navy in 1964.. He also claims to have had extensive training to become Force Recon and a SEAL..


He claims to have did 4 tours in 'Nam.. He admits at Classmates .com that he didn't graduate from High school until 1966..


He wears a Purple Heart because of the land mine he stepped on and: “While down I took another shot from a shooter with a gun” into my shoulder.” Lyons was on the ground, why didn't “the shooter” pop him right between the eyes..? I have pictures of him with the PH.. He also wears a Silver Star patch on his MC Vest..


HONOR THE WARRIOR - a book on Vietnam Silver Star recipients for the Marine Corps and Navy does NOT list Lyons in the book, addendum, or corrections.


I have pictures of him wearing the Silver Star.. NPRC could locate no records.. He is a slick one for sure.. He claims “At the age of 17, he enlisted in the Navy” ,but goes by the name “Gunny Lyons”.. “IF” Lyons was A SEAL, why wouldn't he proudly were the Trident.. I have several pictures of him, and he wears everything else one could think of, except the Trident.. He does wear Gunnery Sgt. Stripes, but nothing that denote him being a SEAL or Force Recon..


He claims: “At the age of 17, he enlisted in the Navy” but he wears a Marine Corps Jacket..


He claims: Lyons served four tours in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, 1964-1968. After serving in the war as a sniper, BUT on Classmates .com he didn't graduate from High School until 1966.. Kinda hard being in Vietnam 2 years prior to his graduation..


I asked on the Phoney Seal forum to run Lyons name and different variations of his name.. This is the reply I received from them:


The following names were checked through the SEAL database:


James Richard Lyons

James R. Lyons

Richard James R. Lyons

And no one by that name ever graduated and became a SEAL.. Thanks to CASS for providing this information.. I also want to thank Colonel Murphy for providing the Silver Star and other photographs..


NOW, I have been in contact with every Marine forum, website, etc., trying to find someone who may have any info. on Lyons.. No one has ever heard of this guy..


I post this here thinking that someone on this site might have heard of him.. Or that someone can lead me in a direction that I might be able to go to see if he was even in the military.. As it stands right now I have my doubts he ever served.. Lyons has told to many lies to to many people..


Any help would be appreciated.. Remember, I can document everything that has been said plus I have pictures..


Lyons has already made Mary Schantag's “Wall of Shame” over at POWNET..
http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies554.htm
If Lyons can produce a DD – 214, and certificates for his Silver Star and Purple Heart that have not been tampered with I will be the first one to apologize to him face to face as a man.. Warm crow is much tastier than cold crow..


In Peace & Patriotism,


Clay
  #2  
Old 23 September 2009, 06:01
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Remington Raider Remington Raider is offline
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good tips posted already

start at: http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=85694Happy hunting.
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  #3  
Old 23 September 2009, 09:11
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Lyons

Here's a photo of Lyons wearing a Silver Star patch on the botom left of his MC Vest and it looks like a BSM on the bottom right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lyons.jpg (23.8 KB, 982 views)
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Old 23 September 2009, 09:14
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Lyons

Lyons wearing GySgt stripes.
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File Type: jpg Gunny Lyons.jpg (30.1 KB, 976 views)
  #5  
Old 23 September 2009, 09:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington Raider View Post
I have pictures of the poser wearing the Silver Star and Purple heart.. Plus he loves to tell the tall tell of how he was awarded the Purple Heart, but says nothing about the Silver Star..

Mary at POWNET has been on this case almost from the beginning.. Here is what she says about Lyons on her "Wall of Shame":

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies554.htm

She checked, "HONOR THE WARRIOR" - a book on Vietnam Silver Star recipients for the Marine Corps and Navy does NOT list Lyons in the book, addendum, or corrections.

NPRC has no record of him, mainly because of the vague information we have.. He is a slick one.. We don't have his Service Number or a SS number.. We do have a birth date, but we're not sure if it is even correct..

We know he was raised in Florida, but now supposedly he lives in Alabama.. We may have an address coming.. The person with that info. won't be back for a couple of weeks..

Clay
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Old 23 September 2009, 09:40
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Lyons

A lady at our post who has been in contact with Debbie seems to think that they live in NY now. Trying to get an address from her.
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Old 24 September 2009, 12:35
JohnHolmberg JohnHolmberg is offline
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Icon5 I am Deborah's son and Richard's stepson

First:
I would like to know why there is such an effort to trash my stepdad's name. He did indeed serve in Vietnam. He has half a foot and a shoulder to go with it. He is the best man i know and it is an honor for him to be my stepdad. If you are getting information i ask that you get it from him instead of relying on a newspaper article that rushed two pages of filler out to gain a few views on their page, when the actual interview for the article was probably five minutes after they got off work.

Second:
He is not a violent man but considering the amount of times he has been physically attacked throughout his life by crazy people who want to cause harm to an old man, i don't blame him for pulling out a k-bar. Because if he did chances are he had a reason. Was John Devitt approaching him calmly or raging? And whether John Devitt built the wall himself or developed it that gives him no right to say anything, much less shout orders he does not have the authority for. Last i checked Jan Scruggs is the man in charge and not John Devitt. And did you know within the past few months Jan Scruggs had his throat slit by a mugger? Sounds to me like Richard is within perfect right and mind to pull a K-Bar on a stranger that shouts at him to do something not told to him by his boss. If you approach someone you need to make sure you approach them in a civilized manner.

quote: "John asked Lyons what the hell was he doing parking his rig in front of The Wall"

sounds threatening to me and i wasn't there. Very unprofessional.

Third:
Why does anyone need his current address? Because his address is wherever the vvmf wall is. And if you decide to dig you just end up with my home address.

AND I WILL NOT ALLOW MY ADDRESS TO BE POSTED PUBLICLY BY ANYONE AND I WILL NOTIFY THE STAFF IMMEDIATELY IF THAT HAPPENS!

Fourth: All of the info retrieved is from the web. Richard is VERY computer illiterate. If you have a list of questions I will make sure he receives them and i plan to tell him of this page. However I will not ask any questions that are disrespectful.


p.s. This man has done more for our country than many on this forum. and regardless of what he did I respect him for choosing to serve his country and continuing to do so.
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Old 24 September 2009, 12:59
Kip Kip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHolmberg View Post
First:
p.s. This man has done more for our country than many on this forum. and regardless of what he did I respect him for choosing to serve his country and continuing to do so.
Sorry, way out of my lane, but I had to say something.

Are you 100% sure about that?? (I have a feeling you are going to get hammered into for that comment, and I very much hope it happens.)

Do you have proof that he was either a SEAL or a Force Recon Marine? If so, post it.

I know very little about the military, but at this moment it seems like these fine men have convinced me that your "step-dad" was not a SEAL, sniper, or a Force Recon Marine.
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Old 24 September 2009, 13:18
JohnHolmberg JohnHolmberg is offline
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Angry Honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kip View Post
Sorry, way out of my lane, but I had to say something.

Are you 100% sure about that?? (I have a feeling you are going to get hammered into for that comment, and I very much hope it happens.)

Do you have proof that he was either a SEAL or a Force Recon Marine? If so, post it.

I know very little about the military, but at this moment it seems like these fine men have convinced me that your "step-dad" was not a SEAL, sniper, or a Force Recon Marine.
Honestly you could prove without a doubt that that was the case. Fact is though he is my stepdad and i love him and respect him. I value his word over yours. He is a great man and will always be.

(btw are you saying that bringing the wall to millions of people a year is nothing? how many flaming orphans did you rescue?)
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Old 24 September 2009, 13:24
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Kip...you need to get back to your lane.
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Old 24 September 2009, 13:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHolmberg View Post
AND I WILL NOT ALLOW MY ADDRESS TO BE POSTED PUBLICLY BY ANYONE AND I WILL NOTIFY THE STAFF IMMEDIATELY IF THAT HAPPENS!
Hi John Holmes, welcome to our forum.

I'd like to introduce myself. I am THE STAFF.

The National Personnel Records Center does not have any record of service of your stepfather. That makes him a lying douchebag. You can spew whatever you want about how pretty his hairdo is or how well he can groom a lilac bush in the springtime....it's all subterfuge.

Post a redacted DD-214. Get the names of the exact units and timeframes he was there. Clear his name!

In the process of attempting this, the truth will make itself evident to you with how he responds when you press him.
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Old 24 September 2009, 14:35
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If your stepfather is travelling around the country portraying a Marine, SEAL or whatever and he in fact never earned the title then he may as well be slapping every service member who did serve and those being honored on the wall in the face. If in fact he did serve, which Dark Helmet has already confirmed that the National Personnel Records Center has no record...then for me your step dad is a lying POS until he can definitvely prove otherwise which I very seriously doubt. Also, I'm sure travelling around the country displaying this wall cost a pretty penny and relies on donations. Is your stepdad compensated thru these donations or in any way involved in collecting donations? I would have a big problem with that. Your stepdad is now a big blip on the SOCNET radar and the gentlemen on this website do not make idle threats. I pity the fool in SOCNET's crosshairs. If he is an imposter in any way, shape or form...he will most assuredly rue the day and the members here will stop at nothing to see he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If he is so computer savvy then he can Google the term 'Stolen Valor'. See if he likes them apples.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHolmberg View Post
Honestly you could prove without a doubt that that was the case. Fact is though he is my stepdad and i love him and respect him. I value his word over yours. He is a great man and will always be.

(btw are you saying that bringing the wall to millions of people a year is nothing? how many flaming orphans did you rescue?)
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Old 24 September 2009, 14:58
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Quote:
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.........how many flaming orphans did you rescue?
Are you implying that this is something that your step-father has claimed to have done?
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Old 24 September 2009, 15:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHolmberg View Post
Last i checked Jan Scruggs is the man in charge and not John Devitt.

Third:
Why does anyone need his current address? Because his address is wherever the vvmf wall is. And if you decide to dig you just end up with my home address.
Look Lyins Jr., Scruggs IS NOT and NEVER HAS been in charge of the non-profit "The Moving Wall".. John Devitt is, alway has, and always will be in charge.. He was on the road in October of '84.. The FOR-PROFIT "The Wall That Heals" was started 12 years after John got started.. Do some research and get your facts straight.. If someone told you different then they are Lyin' douchebags too..

Lyins Sr. has repeatedly told people he was a Navy SEAL.. That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that, NO, he never was.. I did my research.. He's a liar..

Notice in the picture that of your Step-Dad that he is wearin' a Silver Star.. There is a registry that has the names of all the Navy & Marine personnel awarded the SS.. Guess what.. Lyins Sr.'s name ain't on there.. He was never awarded the SS.. Do you realize that is a Felony under the "Stolen Valor Act".. I did my research..

Lyins Sr. has repeatedly told people that he was in 'Nam from '64 thru '68.. BUT on Classmates.com Lyins Sr. says he didn't graduate until 1966.. Kinda hard bein' in Vietnam when your still in High School..

IF Lyins Sr. "had been" a Navy SEAL, then why wouldn't he proudly wear his beloved Trident..? Instead he wears Gunny Sgt. Stripes.. Which brings up the fact that he only did 4 years in the military and he says he RETIRED as a Gunnery Sgt.. That would be a meteoric rise in rank, NO I believe it would be impossible..

That shot in the shoulder.. Explain that to me.. He says he lost 1/2 of his shoulder.. I thought all or none.. Did they measure the wound..? Also explain to me, why would, "the shooter with a gun", we call 'em VC or NVA, shoot him in the shoulder? Lyins Sr. had just stumbled on a booby trap and was lyin' on his back, why didn't "the shooter" just pop him between the eyes..? Cross-eyed shooter I reckon..

Lyins Sr. needs to explain how he accomplished all of his intensive training and the 4 tours in 'Nam in such a short period of time.. I know of no other soldier that could accomplish like he did..

This is no longer about the KaBar, Devitt, or who's in charge of The Moving Wall, it's about STOLEN VALOR.. Until Lyins Sr. can produce a set of orders awarding him the SS, then he is guilty under the STOLEN VALOR ACT..

Look kid, no one was out to trash Sr.'s name until he started al the lyin'.. Everything has been documented to prove he is a liar.. I understand you wanting to stand up for your Dad, but you need to set down with him and ask why he has told all the lies.. He has options, and I hope he does the right thing..
  #15  
Old 24 September 2009, 17:28
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from a practical standpoint

If he makes himself a moving target it will be harder to get an AUSA to issue in a particular jurisdiction. IF this really is Jr. then my question is his address in the Northern, Middle, or Southern Federal Judicial District. It's good to see a son loyal to his stepdad, but it wouldn't be the first time family members found out they have been lied too for a long time. Sometimes, they don't find out until after the "veteran" has passed. IF you are his step-son I feel badly for you. If he is willing to lie to you, lying to everybody else would be easy. You can only be sure of one thing at this point. This is gonna get sorted out. Use the search feature and just enter "poser". You will get an education. I hope this is just a BIG misunderstanding, but if I had to put some cash money down . . .
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  #16  
Old 26 September 2009, 02:12
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Questions for Gunny Lyons

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHolmberg View Post
If you have a list of questions I will make sure he receives them and i plan to tell him of this page. However I will not ask any questions that are disrespectful.
Hell yeah I have a few questions, and none of them are disrespectful, and I expect an answer..

Several media outlets say that you are 62 years old.. You told the media that you joined the Navy at age 17.. That makes you joining the Navy in 1964.. You have told the media that you did four (04) tours in 'Nam from 1964 till 1968.. You have also told the media that you did your UDT training at Key West, Florida.. You have told the media that you went through Jungle Warfare Training in Panama, Jump School at Ft. Benning, and Special Weapons Training at Quantico..


QUESTIONS:



(01).. What years did you do your basic, SEAL, and Force Recon training..?

(02).. You say that you retired as a Gunny Sgt.. What year was that..?

(03).. What year and class did you graduate from after you finished SEAL training..?

(04).. Why do you wear Gunny Sgt. stripes on your MC vest, and you don't wear your SEAL Trident..?

(05).. You wear a Silver Star & Purple Heart on your MC vest, but you are not listed as a SS recipient.. Why..?

(06).. Do you have a set of orders that allows you to wear the Silver Star..? Would you be willing to scan a redacted copy of it and your DD-214 to prove time in service..?

(07).. Were you in Vietnam as a SEAL, Force Recon, or a Marine Corp. Sniper..? Or all three (03)..?

(08).. You have a very impressive list of acconplishment and you did it all in four (04) years.. How can that be accomplished in such a short period of time..?

Just remember before you answer, these are your words, and no on else's..
  #17  
Old 26 September 2009, 09:30
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A few points:

I don't want him to have any wiggle room over nomenclature.

The rank he is wearing is Gunnery Sergeant and it is abbreviated as GySgt. There is no rank of Gunny Sgt.

Gunny or The Gunny is a term of respect given GySgt's.

GySgt is one of the most prestigious ranks in the Marine Corps. It is known both inside and outside the Corps.

The amount of GySgt's who served in Force Recon during the time Mr Lyons claims, can be counted on less than 10 fingers. His name is never mentioned by those who were there.

Anyone who made GySgt in less than 4 years and retired at that rank at 4 years would be in the history books since it would be a historic feat. No one ever heard of him.

The questions I suggest he answer are:

Which Force Recon company did you serve in?

What was the callsign of the team you were a member of?

What living human being can state he served with you in VN, in a Force Recon company, in a SEAL plt?
  #18  
Old 26 September 2009, 09:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
A few points:

I don't want him to have any wiggle room over nomenclature.

The rank he is wearing is Gunnery Sergeant and it is abbreviated as GySgt. There is no rank of Gunny Sgt.
My most sincere apology for I would never disrespect a true GySgt. Not being able to speak Marine, my shot in the dark failed miserably..

Thanks, no wiggle room for Lyins, now .. ... ..
  #19  
Old 26 September 2009, 15:41
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is offline
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Since SB just weighed in, I feel this guys shit getting weaker and weaker by the minute. As I said before, he has drawn the ire of a very powerfull community. Woe be unto him. Go ahead and try to defend your daddy Mr. Holmes...you're resistance will prove futile.
  #20  
Old 26 September 2009, 17:40
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I realize that I'm out of my lane, as this is in the Marine AO, but I can give an explanation to one question. A lot of guys joined, back when, without graduating high school. The military encouraged getting GED after things settled down. So a later graduating date could be explained.

The "Wall" was disappointing to me because of the phonies hanging around, pretending to be something their not. I hope this isn't another one, but from what I've read, I think I'm still going to be disappointed.
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