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#1
27 October 2009, 09:05
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I'm donating $40 dollars to his legal defense fund. Guilty or not 25 years is just strait up bu!!sh!t.
The forensics in the case is a crock as anyone that has been to Iraq can tell you the locals dont do CSI and the whole country is strewn with bullets, shell casings, gun powder residue and blood. The witnesss may have been telling the truth, but both had good reasons to lie as well. Most of us could easily find ourselves accused of criminal activity becuase we were overzelous or overly aggresive conduct during the GWOT, we (as a comunity) need to resist the second guessing and these bulls!t prosecutions that come in after everything is safe. Remember Lt Illario Pantano or the Iraqi setup in Hadaitha or the two SF guys that were charged with murder for conducting a sniper mission? While there are some guys that are out of control we seem to be treating our conduct on the battlefield as though we were the local PD. Were not, our purpose is to find and kill our nations enemeis as quickly and cheaply as possible. Would I have acted the way this Lt acted? Hell no, but that doesnt mean its murder and that doesnt mean he should have gotten 25 years. Ill match any donation up to $500 from anyone on SOCNET. One of the MODS can hold the money. Respect to all those who disagree with me as long as they've been over there. Jundy Jundy
__________________
"If you see someone who served honorably in combat struggling, step up and reach out to that person." - Magician, November 2008 
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#2
27 October 2009, 12:12
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Bottom line... He was convicted, the person he killed was not. It is still innocent until proven guilty despite all of us wanting to go "Charles Bronson" on their ass. (Trust me Bro, I do too...) This Taliban was taken prisoner. Strike one against us. Kill them before taking them prisoner if we want them all dead. No questions asked, he was a combatant and we killed him, end of story. He was interrogated by Army intel and for whatever reason we don't know of, some jackass made the decision to release him. Strike two. If this fucktard was a "known AQ operative" he never should have been released. In this area we are fucking up royally over there. However, we don't know the big picture. Maybe they were going to track this asshat, to lead them to bigger fish.. maybe he had a GPS in his ass hooked up to a JADAM... We don't know. Then, they allow someone who just had members of his platoon killed recently "take him home". Strike three. Why in the hell is anyone taking him anywhere? If they wanted him released, open the fucking door. There is Iraq, hit the road jackoff. We give free rides to "known terrorists"? However... If the defense's story is legit, and the prisoner fought, he should have been shot, and I agree with your defense. Having worked on the prosecution side however, I know the amount of horse shit a defense lawyer and their client can shovel. Metric tons. Having said the above, I am all for taking off the gloves, modifying the "law" or rules of war, and going completely medieval on their collective asses and doing the pork and heads on pikes thing. It has to be an agreement that we all reach though, as a society, and not one soldier that decides the rules don't apply to him. As long as the law is the law, it needs to be followed. If enough people disagree with it, it can be changed. In other words... We can go medieval, it just has to be a group effort, and everyone has to be on the same page and accept the responsibilities that come with it. Not that they don't now, but we could then expect our prisoners to experience a similar fate if captured. We could also expect many more shitbags being used as martyrs. We may not agree with the laws in some circumstances, but that does not mean we can obey them when we want. 
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"....As far as "rights" are concerned... I look at them this way. I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own." GROG If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.
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#3
27 October 2009, 15:16
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Blood spatter evidence can be perishable like most evidenciary material and the analysis surrounding it is dependent on a number of factors, especially environmental conditions. If retained and examined in it's original form and or if photographs and sketches with scaled diagrams are rendered, a number of conclusions can be drawn to include determining with a certain degree of scientific certainty the location of the blood source. Furthermore, statements can be made regarding the movement, direction and height of the bloood source from the blood spatter impact area. As a result, before I'd pass judgment on anyone's guilt or lack thereof, I'd want to know, the results of the forensic workup. However, just as importantly as the findings and or anlysis, I'd want to know the who, what, where and when of how that evidence was collected and stored. None of that information is in the story. Thus I'd withhold judgment involving guilt. However, I will say, if the report is believable, that the prosecutors are either incredibly incompetent or inexperienced and or maybe both. I know of no competent prosecutor, and I've known a few, who would call their SME on the day of his/her testimony to testify and didn't know with 110% what the expert was going to say and that tesitmony was going to support their theory of the case. If I was their boss I'd fire them outright for allowing this to happen since apparently they cannot manage their case properly.
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"He knows no danger-He knows no fear-He knows nothing!" Johhny English Last edited by cj; 27 October 2009 at 15:31.
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#4
27 October 2009, 11:36
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__________________
"One hand kills and the other's crazy"- White Zombie
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#5
27 October 2009, 16:12
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I would also say the decision to release the prisoner, and then placing him back into the custody of the same unit who suspected that he killed a couple of their members, is a recipe for trouble. And I should point out, this has nothing to do with the circumstances surrounding the actual death of the prisoner. Just putting him back into their custody was probably the wrong move. 25 years seems pretty stiff, though. Quote:
That's always an important mitigating factor not only when deciding guilt or innocence, but also when it comes to sentencing. Did the the Lt's lawyer even bring this up at trial? Because when shit like this occurs in a war zone, it has to be looked at within that context. It's not the same as if a similar thing happened in the civilian world or back in garrison.
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"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who!" Last edited by Spinner; 27 October 2009 at 16:22.
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#6
27 October 2009, 11:38
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Predictions:
1 - The sentence will be reduced (to a lesser term in years) before being approved by the convening authority. 2 - The LT Behenna will serve less than 5 calendar years at the disciplinary barracks before release on parole.
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#7
27 October 2009, 13:12
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The dude should have "fell" out of the truck on the way home after hitting a pothole and spilled his brains "accidentally" all over the road.
The LT showed not only piss-poor leadership, but piss-poor situational awareness and piss-poor planning on how to wack a motherfucker and get away with it. Shit at the very least make a huge show of dropping dude off at his house. Give him a case of MREs. Shake his hand, pat him on the back, thank him profusely. His neighbors would take care of the situation from that point.
__________________
Notice what no one else notices and you'll know what no one else knows.
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#8
27 October 2009, 13:31
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 Let his neighbors pay him a visit later on .. problem solved.
__________________
Take one vial of my blood and I will not die. But if you continue taking it one vial at a time, slowly... I will die slowly. But make no mistake.. I WILL die ....the same with my RIGHTS!
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#9
27 October 2009, 13:32
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#10
28 October 2009, 00:42
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 You'd be surprised how bad some of those potholes could be.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? LRSD rhymes with thirsty "The only rational patriotism is loyalty to the nation all the time, and loyalty to the government when it deserves it." -- Mark Twain "Long live the new flesh!" -- Max Renn
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#11
28 October 2009, 12:29
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Concur 100%. So many ways to kill this fucker, very poor planning.
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Cco 1/75 RLTW 8-92 Two eyes from the east.
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#12
28 October 2009, 12:36
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I'd have driven back to his house with "gifts" every day until the day he was no longer there because he'd been asploded by his former friends.
__________________
Notice what no one else notices and you'll know what no one else knows.
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#13
27 October 2009, 13:55
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RGR.Montcalm nailed it.
CB was also correct. Very PROBABLE the sentence will be reduced. Had a long talk with a corrections Senior NCO from Leavenworth... normal protocol is at the 'In brief' (Welcome Aboard Meeting?) the warden will tell the inmates that their sentence is cut in half on his authority as of that moment. Time will be added to the sentence or more taken from it BASED ON HIS BEHAVIOR. Not sure of the veracity of this... but it makes a LOT of sense.
__________________
How do you like 'the change you can believe in' now.
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#14
27 October 2009, 14:54
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I didn't see anything about him serving in the Regiment. What did I miss?
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C CO. 1/75 "You must hurt to win!" We are all fit and strong, what makes the difference is your willingness to suffer! Yasotay (Mongol Warlord), 1314
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#16
27 October 2009, 16:00
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i knew his dad,retired OSBI agent,Oklahoma.both his parents are in LE.
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IIIMAF,2nd CAG,7th CO.,CAP Platoons 6 &8-RVN 0311/8651USMC http://marines.togetherweserved.com/profile/47950 sometimes the best soldier for the job is a Marine
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#17
27 October 2009, 16:08
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If any of use were new Lt's assigned to the 101st and we had a suspect AQ operative in our custody, and we thought with just a little more pressure that operative would break, how aggresive would we be?
__________________
"If you see someone who served honorably in combat struggling, step up and reach out to that person." - Magician, November 2008
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#18
27 October 2009, 19:09
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I can COMPLETELY understand the Lt.'s feeling and his motivation. Having said that turning this guy over to him wasn't the smartest thing in the world. I would have thought that people would have learned their lessons from all the other dumb shit that has been done or attempted. 25 years is pretty insane and I really hope that it gets reduced.
__________________
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers." "Change....one magazine at a time."
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#19
28 October 2009, 03:44
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I'm extremely torn on this. We are supposed to hold ourselves to a standard, slippery slope and all that. How many corners do we cut and how many standards do we let slip before we're what we're fighting against? I don't think we'd ever become the SS, but I don't want to go in that direction either. At the same time, I've always felt we were taking too many prisoners over here and that your average VBIED making asshole should just die and be forgotten. I am trying to separate how I feel about this subject with how I should feel, and what I might have done or advocated in his shoes. I know that if I were with this Lt, I wouldn't have lost a moment's sleep due to guilt. To me, there is nothing "wrong" about what he did except in the slippery slope sense.
If I were on this jury, I'd have voted to acquit whether or not I thought he was guilty. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm glad we have a system in place to keep us honest. I believe in the rule of law and accountability.
__________________
"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that." - "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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#20
28 October 2009, 11:52
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Anyone remember the grenade attack at Camp Pennsylvania 3 days before we crossed the berm in OIF1? You know when SGT Akbar killed 2 officers from 1st BDE, 101st?
Akbar was attached to my Bn the night before he did this. Anyway, when they caught him, they had 3 Senior NCOs from BDE S-3 that worked with both of the officers killed guarding the shit stain. After re-establishing security, I walked over to one the NCOs, whom had tears coming from his eyes and was trembling. I asked if he was OK and he said, "I'm just waiting for this fucker to move so i can shoot him," or words to that effect. Akbar was bound with his hands behind him, kneeling in the sand under the glare of the spotlights. I told him that he wasn't worth throwing away his career over and going to jail. I told him that the military courts would take care of him and i looked at the other two to make sure they heard me also. Now they KNEW Akbar had killed CPT Seifert and MAJ Moon; they lived in the tents right next to the tents that were attacked. Akbar had wounded himself when a grenade went off and shrapnel passed through the tents and hit him. The Question is: Would they be justified in executing him without a trial? The answer is NO- just like the LT had no right to execute Mansur. My .05- for writing so much and having to be serious...
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Ranger, it's all about mind over matter; you better not mind, 'cause it don't matter! Shallow men believe in luck; strong men believe in cause and effect "Strong Like Bull, Smart Like Tractor"
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