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Old 31 August 2011, 00:28
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Crap!
You gotta be kidding me. I just went in to our training unit to see about getting put in for my Advanced POST. All these new guys with less than 5 yrs on and ZERO experience are getting theirs so I figure i have to qualify.

After 13 years, SWAT, Narcs, Gang Team, LE Pilot, Aircrew, FTO, DRE, etc, I have only accumulated 6.94 points of the 24 points required to get my Advanced POST. But if I had my Bachelors Degree in any subject, I would only need like 4 years of LE experience. With a Masters I would only need 2 years as a cop to have an ADVANCED POST!!!! WTF!!?? Does anyone think a degree is being weighted a little to heavy???

I was wondering how all these freakin' Rookies were getting their Advanced POST Certs. Most of our new guys are coming to us with Masters Degrees in Crim. Un-freakin-believable!!! Looks like daddy is buckling down to finish up that AA. With that, I will qualify.
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Old 31 August 2011, 00:37
MeatLasagna MeatLasagna is offline
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You already have done or do all the cool things - what does Advanced POST let you do? Good luck with the degree, I hear U of Cincinnati has a good Criminal Science online Master's program btw.
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Old 31 August 2011, 01:10
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Originally Posted by MeatLasagna View Post
You already have done or do all the cool things - what does Advanced POST let you do? Good luck with the degree, I hear U of Cincinnati has a good Criminal Science online Master's program btw.
I know with some Departments (like mine) there is a pay incentive for an Advanced POST...I got mine after about 10 years on.

Flying Pig...Were you aware that you can use education points to supplement training points? For example, if you have over 12 years experience, you need 30 education points (1 college semester credit=1 education point), and 30 Training points (20 hrs of POST training = 1 training point). You can use any semester hours over 30, in your case, and convert them 1 to 1 for training points. Would that help you get there? If not, extra college classes are a quick way to stock up on points...Hope this helps.
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Old 31 August 2011, 01:18
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Zonk 1/75 Zonk 1/75 is offline
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rookie..............

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Old 31 August 2011, 11:58
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Originally Posted by MeatLasagna View Post
You already have done or do all the cool things - what does Advanced POST let you do? Good luck with the degree, I hear U of Cincinnati has a good Criminal Science online Master's program btw.
It lets me deposit an extra $100 per mo

Dep...RSO since 99 huh? Im wondering if we know each other? If not I know we know some of the same people.
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Last edited by Flying Pig; 31 August 2011 at 12:01.
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Old 31 August 2011, 17:12
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I bet we do! Check your PM...
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Old 31 August 2011, 21:00
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I have been a proponent of removing the college credit requirement in Georgia for years. I do have a BS and will complete my MPA next January. That said neither has done anything in the way of making me a better COP. Administrator...maybe but not a better cop. There's no way you can convince me that a 20 year patrolman with experience should not be granted intermediate or advanced status simply because they did not go to college. Just like there is no way I can be convinced that a three year patrolman with a degree can be intermediate certified. Just my opinion.
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Old 31 August 2011, 21:28
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Originally Posted by Sharc1 View Post
I have been a proponent of removing the college credit requirement in Georgia for years. I do have a BS and will complete my MPA next January. That said neither has done anything in the way of making me a better COP. Administrator...maybe but not a better cop. There's no way you can convince me that a 20 year patrolman with experience should not be granted intermediate or advanced status simply because they did not go to college. Just like there is no way I can be convinced that a three year patrolman with a degree can be intermediate certified. Just my opinion.
+1...Well said Sharc.
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Old 1 September 2011, 20:39
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Originally Posted by Flying Pig View Post
With a Masters I would only need 2 years as a cop to have an ADVANCED POST!!!! WTF!!??
Stop yer bitchin, and git-r-done.

Why do you think they invented the midnight shift. I worked one for 12 years straight. Had I wanted, or had the desire, I could have done another full time job. GROG
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Old 1 September 2011, 22:35
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It appears to be a fact of life for advancement in most fields, law enforcement being the latest. One of our local departments was among the first to require a 4 year degree to be hired, that's going back 20 years now.

I once read on a local cop blog something an old timer from the CPD said some time ago, about how today's cops have too much college and not enough high school.

There's something to be said for that.
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  #11  
Old 2 October 2011, 13:09
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When I first hired on at Monterey P.D., I had an AS Degree from Monterey Peninsula College. My first sergeant was Charly Davis, the youngest sgt in Monterey's history. I asked Charlie one night, at breakfast, what his secret was. Charly told me that it was education!

Charly attended Golden Gate University and received a BA Degree before applying for sergeant. Needless to say in 1971, Charly was the only candidate to apply that had a college degree. I started taking classes immediately. I worked a 10 plan shift from 2130-0730 for the next five years and managed to obtain a BS and an MPA degree.

I, too made sergeant within three years of being hired. Now most Monterey P.D. officers have college degrees and a few have masters degrees. Keep up the good work, but don't begrudge those who took the initative to become better educated.
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Old 2 October 2011, 16:51
catfish catfish is offline
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Originally Posted by sfmike View Post
Keep up the good work, but don't begrudge those who took the initative to become better educated.
I don't want to speak for the original poster, but he might have been referring to people with education, but little / no experience, getting preference instead of guys with solid, applicable backgrounds.

I certainly have seen this develop lately in my own agency. To put it mildly, the results are less than acceptable.

Nothing wrong with a strong academic background, but it is often useless without applicable experience...
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  #13  
Old 2 October 2011, 17:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
It appears to be a fact of life for advancement in most fields, law enforcement being the latest. One of our local departments was among the first to require a 4 year degree to be hired, that's going back 20 years now.

I once read on a local cop blog something an old timer from the CPD said some time ago, about how today's cops have too much college and not enough high school.

There's something to be said for that.
That came from Eddie Wodnicki. A no nonsense policemans policeman. He was referring to the huge number of policemen we have now that have multiple degrees but no common sense. Eddie was a hell of a cop back in the day. He was a bad ass cop that took not one ounce of shit from anyone, cop or bad guy. He was quick with his fists and pretty good with them to boot. He retired as the Area Three Detective Division Commander IIRC.
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  #14  
Old 2 October 2011, 19:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfmike View Post
When I first hired on at Monterey P.D., I had an AS Degree from Monterey Peninsula College. My first sergeant was Charly Davis, the youngest sgt in Monterey's history. I asked Charlie one night, at breakfast, what his secret was. Charly told me that it was education!

Charly attended Golden Gate University and received a BA Degree before applying for sergeant. Needless to say in 1971, Charly was the only candidate to apply that had a college degree. I started taking classes immediately. I worked a 10 plan shift from 2130-0730 for the next five years and managed to obtain a BS and an MPA degree.

I, too made sergeant within three years of being hired. Now most Monterey P.D. officers have college degrees and a few have masters degrees. Keep up the good work, but don't begrudge those who took the initative to become better educated.



I dont begrudge. But what happens is those on top only understand a "degree". I would submit that my dual flight instructor ratings involved more "education" than most of the paper-mill Crim degrees most of my fellow officers have. Not to mention all of the follow-on training that is required. Many get their degrees, hang them on the wall and thats the end of it. What I chose to spend my $$ on is something that needs continual polishing and currency. Nobody outside of flying understands that.
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Old 2 October 2011, 19:59
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Academic education is only good, or a benefit, if you already have your head screwed on correctly.

An incompetent / inexperienced dumb-ass with a Degree is still a dumb-ass.
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Old 7 October 2011, 20:30
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Do your remember the old DOJ Law Enforcement Education Program (LEEP)? The program paid for books and tuition of cops who attended college. I bought a new car and got my Masters Degree through the program as the LEEP money combined with my GI Bill money covered all expense and left me with a couple hundred extra bucks a month. I believe the program grew out of the 60's vietnam and race riots when the DOJ opined that educated cops were less likely to cause a riot. It was a great program that helped a lot of cops further their education.
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  #17  
Old 7 October 2011, 20:43
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Musta' been before my time.
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Old 7 October 2011, 21:13
armyscout33 armyscout33 is offline
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Find an online college that will give credit for military and life experience. You can gain quite a bit of college credits for stuff you've done already. You've been around enough that you should know an education makes for a much better leader than experience.
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  #19  
Old 7 October 2011, 22:20
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I think the point has been lost. My issue isnt with education. My issue is that there is only one type of education recognized in law enforcement. And if it doesnt have the word "degree" at the end of it, it doesnt count. Im drinking the Kool-Aid and getting my AA done at least. But thats not my point. I think with my current experience, adding a degree will only make it better. I get it.
I have a great education. But its not one that 99.9% of my co-workers understand. When they hear "pilot" they dont think, "Wow, time, money and years of continuing education and training that directly relates to what you do for us." Instead, its "Oh, thats neat, I flew with my grand-pa a couple of times in his little plane."

As far as education making a better leader than experience? Yes, education in the right areas combined with the experience, yes. Just a degree hanging on the wall? No. What I dont agree with is that POST is telling cops that a Masters in ANY subject is directly equal to 10 years of experience as a cop and hundreds of hours of LE specific training.
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Conduct every traffic stop extending the olive branch of peace; while having a tactical plan to kill everyone inside the vehicle. - Gordon Graham

Last edited by Flying Pig; 7 October 2011 at 22:23.
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  #20  
Old 8 October 2011, 12:19
SWAT Sniper SWAT Sniper is offline
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I tend to agree with Flying Pig. I have a BS Degree, and got it while working as a full-time LEO. That was 25 yrs. ago, and it was the "thing" to do for those hoping to advance based on the direction POST was taking. While it is nice to have, it doesn't make me a better street cop. It did help me to advance, but it's not something that can replace street experience. I think POST over-emphasizes the education, and experience is still the key. To me, three years street experience is nowhere near enough to go to Sgt. in most departments. I don't know how you could could get enough experience in that short of a time-frame in most departments.
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