Former Capt. Swenson will be awarded MOH

[CA SGT]

Spent some time at Joyce/A-bad, working up in the Chowkay looking for some dudes. It's an "interesting" area to say the least. Not surprised as to the level of opposition they faced that day, but I was mystified as to the TOC' s lack of assistance. They seemed pretty squared away when we we there.

[Max V.]

Originally Posted by CA SGT

Spent some time at Joyce/A-bad, working up in the Chowkay looking for some dudes. It's an "interesting" area to say the least. Not surprised as to the level of opposition they faced that day, but I was mystified as to the TOC' s lack of assistance. They seemed pretty squared away when we we there.

That was my unit(1-32 INF). All in all I think we were a very squared away unit(as do many others who later went to other units, so they had a comparison). Unfortunately, when this went down the battalion commander was on leave. The battle captain was very new and the battalion XO had to be woken up several times to come to the TOC(that should tell you everything you need to know about that).

Even worse was that one of our D co.(mounted) platoons was at the entrance of the valley the whole time and were ordered by the TOC not to go in. Our scout platoon was also just inside the valley and they repeatedly requested permission to move in. IMO, some orders are meant to be disobeyed, especially when you've got uparmored gun trucks and you are sitting there watching guys drive back into the valley.

Another part of the problem was that 4-4(the brigade 1-32 fell under for that deployment) had ridiculously strict ROEs when it came to using artillery. Huge shift from 2006 when it was "Flashlights in the open, fire for effect". In 2009 you had to have Brigade(at JAF) clear artillery, which took much longer and usually resulted in them requesting more information. Sometimes you got lucky and had someone in the TOC who knew exactly how to phrase stuff, but for the most part it took entirely too long to get rounds in the air.


That being said, Captain Swenson is truly a hero. I'm glad the MOH was finally approved.

[SOTB]

Originally Posted by Max V.

....the battalion XO had to be woken up several times to come to the TOC(that should tell you everything you need to know about that).

Damn.

Originally Posted by Max V.

IMO, some orders are meant to be disobeyed, especially when you've got uparmored gun trucks and you are sitting there watching guys drive back into the valley.

When I was in, I never saw a situation where units were denied support. I'm not about to state that it never happened or would never happen -- just that I never once saw it.

Fast forward a decade or so, and I'm a civvie in a strange situation. I have people working for me that are armed, I'm in a war zone, and I am not a mil guy nor on any fixed contract with fixed rules -- and beholden to no one. I have had the opportunity on more than one occasion to respond to mil units needing support and fortunately, everything worked out OK. Still, when we went in -- it never dawned on me not to. This has nothing to do with being a badass -- I simply didn't even have the possibility of refusing assisting in my BHG -- call it stupidity or whatever.

Granted, having no rules isn't a great way to run a war -- but I certainly would not have wanted to be on the opposite end of the extreme and in the situation that Capt Swenson and his men were....

[Max V.]

Originally Posted by SOTB

Damn.When I was in, I never saw a situation where units were denied support. I'm not about to state that it never happened or would never happen -- just that I never once saw it.

Fast forward a decade or so, and I'm a civvie in a strange situation. I have people working for me that are armed, I'm in a war zone, and I am not a mil guy nor on any fixed contract with fixed rules -- and beholden to no one. I have had the opportunity on more than one occasion to respond to mil units needing support and fortunately, everything worked out OK. Still, when we went in -- it never dawned on me not to. This has nothing to do with being a badass -- I simply didn't even have the possibility of refusing assisting in my BHG -- call it stupidity or whatever.

Granted, having no rules isn't a great way to run a war -- but I certainly would not have wanted to be on the opposite end of the extreme and in the situation that Capt Swenson and his men were....

I think part of the problem was we were fighting a war that had no clear measurable objectives. A lot of commanders failed to grasp the importance of taking the fight to the enemy and killing as many of those motherfuckers as possible(which experts are now saying is a key part of making COIN work - but I'm not claiming to be an expert). They started seeing it as a two-way live fire JRTC rotation. Emphasis was placed on safety and OERs instead of war fighting. Reflective belts are a good example. Another would be that under 4-4 we had to wear eye protection anytime we were outside of a building. So in a warzone, we had to put on safety glasses to go take a piss at 3 AM - even if we were on a secure FOB.

I think that mentality had a trickle down effect, and it caused a lot of officers(and senior NCOs) to focus too much on "the rules" and not enough on fighting a war. That mentality then pervaded down to the platoon level in some cases, and that was it.


I didn't get a chance to work with too many other platoons downrange, but I know that had it been any of the three rifle platoons in my company we would have went in. The officers were pretty squared away and a lot of the NCOs were on their second or third deployments and were short timers. If they wanted to bring us up on UCMJ for disobeying a chickenshit order in order to help out fellow Americans in a dire situation then so be it. And like you said, it's not about being a badass - it's just incomprehensible that you would do anything else. When I heard that the mounted platoon didn't move in one of the first things I thought of was, "How the fuck do you live with yourself after that?" I'd rather die trying than live with the shame.

[CA SGT]

[QUOTE=Max V.;1058332127]That was my unit(1-32 INF).

Huge shift from 2006 when it was "Flashlights in the open, fire for effect".

There was one commander up there at the time we came through that wasn't afraid to expend everything on the "flashlights in the open" scenario. But truth to tell, he was retiring as I remember after that deployment, and didn't give a shit and as much said so.

SGM Caravelho was there when we came thru as well, and nearly got 10 ringed with a rocket while walking across the FOB....Hunting intensified even more after that...LOL